High sports talk call volume does NOT equate success

[Jon Chelesnik]

A sports talk host once argued that his show was popular because "his 3 to 6 p.m. afternoon show was averaging 20 to 30 calls and 10 to 15 e-mails a day."

This couldn't have been a weaker argument.

I hear hosts regularly try to qualify how popular their show is by how many calls they receive. Any Tom, Dick or Harry can attract calls. The hard core fans are going to call anyone. They love to hear themselves on the air. Highly rated shows are those that attract more than just the hard core fans.

Don't give callers the steering wheel. Callers should be a component, not the foundation, for your show.

Callers should be kept short -- :60 to :90 max. They aren't trained to be entertaining. They usually make their points within the first :60 or so. After that, they veer off topic or they start repeating themselves. It quickly deteriorates into bad (i.e. un-entertaining).

One of the most valuable attributes of call segments is the opportunity to brand your show and your station. "Sam in St. Louis, you're with Joe Blow on ESPN Radio." Be certain you give this info before every call that you take.

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[RadioPat1982]

Going to play DA here for a second. Paul Finebaum would argue that callers are good entertainment. Now, obviously every market is different and every show is formatted differently. Market size, content and signal coverage are big factors in this. There is no one size fits all sports talk.

Often times in local sports talk, callers get frustrated that they call in and are placed on hold for several minutes only to be given 15 seconds of air time. Often times they try to make a point, then host cuts them off and they don't even get to add any color to their comments.

I think today's sports radio has many layers and challenges. If you just want to hear the hosts, & guest maybe a national sports show or a podcast is best for you.

If you build an interactive highly local show you can succeed but you rely heavily on the interaction with listeners. Through the phones and especially through social media.

I have to ask though, in small markets where stations are not on an official rating system what should measure success? Callers, emails, FB, Twitter likes? Something has to be a measuring stick.

[PhilGiubileo]

I agree with Jon that you have to use callers correctly in order to drive an entertaining show. That may or may not correspond though with having a high caller volume. If you take a lot of calls and do it the right way (and I agree with how Jon describes it in his response), then that's one thing. But if you're taking 20 calls in a three hour show (which accounting for spots, traffic, weather updates if it's afternoon drive) maybe gives you 40-45 minutes of content an hour--and those callers get 2-3 minutes, then that's lazy and perhaps quite boring.

However, in terms of this:

If you build an interactive highly local show you can succeed but you rely heavily on the interaction with listeners. Through the phones and especially through social media.

I have to ask though, in small markets where stations are not on an official rating system what should measure success? Callers, emails, FB, Twitter likes? Something has to be a measuring stick.

That's something different entirely... At that point, if you're trying to measure 'success', and to me, that's about trying to sell the show to advertisers, then you have to utilize all of the above to try and quantify it, because a sponsor isn't simply going to write a check because the program is good... If it's a good program, but you're not able to demonstrate that anyone is listening, then that doesn't help your cause... Strong social media numbers can help in such a case, and can also be a potential avenue for sponsorships if there's enough of them that are directly tied to the show in question... More important than strong social media numbers though is strong interaction--having 25,000 twitter followers in a small market sounds great--but if they're not interacting with the show/host, then I could argue as a potential customer that they wouldn't interact with my business (which is also a nice way of stating that the host might have just bought a ton of followers instead of cultivating their own audience)...

[RadioPat1982]

I think we can all agree that what works in a major market like NY, or LA wont work in small markets. In the end, sales is the determining factor. If advertisers are happy with a station that takes a lot of callers vs one that does not then so be it. Especially if there are no ratings to back it up.

You got to keep in mind if you are in say Tupelo MS you will not have the same contacts, teams of focus or really anything else in common with a major market. These stations can usually only get smaller guest like bleacher report writes and local newspaper beat writers. Not that there is anything wrong with that, it is just how things work.

I personally cant stand sports stations that are always in a constant rotation of national guests. If I wanted that, I would turn to Sat radio or ESPN radio. I want to know what people (fans) in my area and specifically guest in my area are thinking. I could care less what a writer from Yahoo Sports thinks about a team he has never seen in person.

Maybe it is personal to me, but I hate where things are in radio as a whole. 24 hour voice tracked closest stations have changed markets for ever! Sports is the one thing that should remain local, remain live and still belong to the listener. Lets face it, nobody calls in to radio station to request a song anymore. Sports is one of a few places that will even staff someone near the phones during anything aside from a contest.

[Jon Chelesnik]

Great comments so far. I'm enjoying reading them.

A couple replies to two of them:

Market size, content and signal coverage are big factors in this. There is no one size fits all sports talk.

It is very true that you would program your show differently based upon market. NY, Philly and Boston are three markets where you can argue making an exception to the "less is more" rule when it comes to callers. Those fans tend to be exceptionally knowledgeable and noticeably more passionate than fans in most other markets.

Often times in local sports talk, callers get frustrated that they call in and are placed on hold for several minutes only to be given 15 seconds of air time. Often times they try to make a point, then host cuts them off and they don't even get to add any color to their comments.

Callers getting on the air is a privilege, not a right. Arbitron and PPM have proven that, if a listener knows and likes a show, the show still only has 30 seconds to grab their attention before the listener changes stations. If they don't like or don't know the show, that window is just 15 seconds. That applies to hosts and callers.

If a caller is good, they're good within the first 15 seconds. Otherwise, bad callers who compel listener tune-out must be avoided. Call screeners can be a huge help here. Don't let your call screener put anyone who calls on the air. Make sure the caller has an opinion, is passionate about it and knows how to link a noun and a verb.

[Brian Crozier]

I have to ask though, in small markets where stations are not on an official rating system what should measure success? Callers, emails, FB, Twitter likes? Something has to be a measuring stick.

Now that is a REALLY good question.

In a previous job, I hosted a one-hour local sports talk show on weekdays and then a two-hour show on Saturday mornings. I also did local high school play-by-play. This market was about 70,000 people total. After the talk shows had been on the air for two months, I would have people come up to me at the high school games and talk to me about the talk shows. I'm not talking once or twice or three times, I'm talking every single game I did play-by-play for. I told these people to call in to the show, because management wanted the shows to average 3 callers per hour. That was the metric management was using to determine the show's success.

Unfortunately, the people that told me that they loved the shows would never call in... Management took that as a sign that people weren't listening... And the weekday shows were pulled, followed by the Saturday show dropping to one hour shortly after that.

Now, do I think a market of 70,000 people TOTAL can support a local sports talk show via 3 callers per hour? Maybe I'm wrong... But I thought wanting 3 callers per hour was expecting way too much.

[Jon Chelesnik]

in small markets where stations are not on an official rating system what should measure success? Callers, emails, FB, Twitter likes? Something has to be a measuring stick.

If your sales staff can sell the show, then the show is a success.

[garbagio]

Interestingly, a departing overnight host on a national program touted that they had the highest call volume on their network as he was trying to explain being let go.

[RadioPat1982]

If your sales staff can sell the show, then the show is a success.

Yeah, all other items aside that is really the key.

I cant speak on large or really even medium size markets, but I know in small markets the hosts also have to double up as sells reps. Not a straight brokered time deal but at least having some form of selling in the process.

Especially things like high school football coverage, weekend shifts or specialty shows.

It is just so different depending on each situation. That is why I just cant subscribe to a "right" or "wrong" way to host a show. As long as the bills are getting paid and the listeners are not complaining you will likely keep your job.

If both of those are not happening, the end may be near.

[Jon Chelesnik]

I just cant subscribe to a "right" or "wrong" way to host a show.

There are definitely do's and don't for hosting shows. The trick is knowing your market and what will resonate with your audience. We enter the gray area when trying to measure a show's success in an unrated market.